Novix NB4300

[d***@gmail.com]

Hi,

I went mad, and clicked the 'buy it now' button on ePay, and have a Novix NB4300 STD board being sent to me :-) Ok - Not *that* mad, but just a little crazy.

In the late 80's, I worked at the Australian National University here in Canberra, Australia, where I helped work on a Novix Beta Board - And it was amazingly fast. Blindingly fast. So much so, that I copied the doco and the distribution media.

So - I have here the printouts of the Novix NC4000P Supplement, which documents the Beta Board, and some 40 track floppies - The job for the next couple of nights, is to grab the data off the floppies.

I am writing to the list, to see if anybody has doco for the STD bus board, the NB4300, or if I will be reverse engineering it. From the photos, I see that it has serial on board, as well as the ram for the stack, the return stack, and the data ram, as well as a couple of narrow ePROMS. I can't figure out how serial was implemented from the photo, but there is enough programmable logic that they *might* have implemented a SIO in a gate array because they were out of board real estate, but that's not likely.

What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web about the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

Anyway - hopefully somebody else here can help.

Doug

[Mark Wills]

I can't help unfortunately but if you do manage to get the docs off of your disks or get the docs via some other means then I'd be happy to host them on Forthfiles.net which is where I've archived some rare Forth docs.

Regards

Mark

[Paul E Bennett]

Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
I went mad, and clicked the 'buy it now' button on ePay, and have a Novix
NB4300 STD board being sent to me :-) Ok - Not *that* mad, but just a
little crazy.
In the late 80's, I worked at the Australian National University here in
Canberra, Australia, where I helped work on a Novix Beta Board - And it
was amazingly fast. Blindingly fast. So much so, that I copied the doco
and the distribution media.
So - I have here the printouts of the Novix NC4000P Supplement, which
documents the Beta Board, and some 40 track floppies - The job for the
next couple of nights, is to grab the data off the floppies.
I am writing to the list, to see if anybody has doco for the STD bus
board, the NB4300, or if I will be reverse engineering it. From the
photos, I see that it has serial on board, as well as the ram for the
stack, the return stack, and the data ram, as well as a couple of narrow
ePROMS. I can't figure out how serial was implemented from the photo, but
there is enough programmable logic that they *might* have implemented a
SIO in a gate array because they were out of board real estate, but that's
not likely.
What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web
about the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.
Anyway - hopefully somebody else here can help.
Doug

One of the best documents that explains about the NC4000 chip is "Footsteps
in an Empty Valley" by C. H. Ting (circa 1985). If I recall, the serial was
a bit-banged interface which required a letter from the terminal to
synchronise to the baud-rate you were using.

[Albert van der Horst]

Post by Paul E Bennett

Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
I went mad, and clicked the 'buy it now' button on ePay, and have a Novix
NB4300 STD board being sent to me :-) Ok - Not *that* mad, but just a
little crazy.
In the late 80's, I worked at the Australian National University here in
Canberra, Australia, where I helped work on a Novix Beta Board - And it
was amazingly fast. Blindingly fast. So much so, that I copied the doco
and the distribution media.
So - I have here the printouts of the Novix NC4000P Supplement, which
documents the Beta Board, and some 40 track floppies - The job for the
next couple of nights, is to grab the data off the floppies.
I am writing to the list, to see if anybody has doco for the STD bus
board, the NB4300, or if I will be reverse engineering it. From the
photos, I see that it has serial on board, as well as the ram for the
stack, the return stack, and the data ram, as well as a couple of narrow
ePROMS. I can't figure out how serial was implemented from the photo, but
there is enough programmable logic that they *might* have implemented a
SIO in a gate array because they were out of board real estate, but that's
not likely.
What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web
about the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.
Anyway - hopefully somebody else here can help.
Doug

One of the best documents that explains about the NC4000 chip is "Footsteps
in an Empty Valley" by C. H. Ting (circa 1985). If I recall, the serial was
a bit-banged interface which required a letter from the terminal to
synchronise to the baud-rate you were using.

Then there is "more on novix4000" a periodical. I've volume 3 in front of me.
Contributions from different authors in different fonts and layouts.
Hand drawn diagrams of a "Memory mapped A/D converters"
Ting's beautiful Chinese calligraphy (8 characters) of
For knowledge , add a little everyday
For wisdom, erase little everyday
(Chuck Moore got it framed.)
One guy with only a capitals-only-printer. Apparently Chuck Moore
owned a matrix printer that could do lower case.
His letters contains a mysterious ASCII art road map. He's inviting
the FIG party at COMPUTER COWBOYS 410 Star Hill Road (20 miles
mountain road).

Bill Muench was the only one who could do a proportional font on his
matrix printer. He used a fresh ribbon. If only the contributors to
our Dutch "vierde dimension" were that clever.

[JUERGEN]

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Paul E Bennett

Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
I went mad, and clicked the 'buy it now' button on ePay, and have a Novix
NB4300 STD board being sent to me :-) Ok - Not *that* mad, but just a
little crazy.
In the late 80's, I worked at the Australian National University here in
Canberra, Australia, where I helped work on a Novix Beta Board - And it
was amazingly fast. Blindingly fast. So much so, that I copied the doco
and the distribution media.
So - I have here the printouts of the Novix NC4000P Supplement, which
documents the Beta Board, and some 40 track floppies - The job for the
next couple of nights, is to grab the data off the floppies.
I am writing to the list, to see if anybody has doco for the STD bus
board, the NB4300, or if I will be reverse engineering it. From the
photos, I see that it has serial on board, as well as the ram for the
stack, the return stack, and the data ram, as well as a couple of narrow
ePROMS. I can't figure out how serial was implemented from the photo, but
there is enough programmable logic that they *might* have implemented a
SIO in a gate array because they were out of board real estate, but that's
not likely.
What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web
about the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.
Anyway - hopefully somebody else here can help.
Doug

One of the best documents that explains about the NC4000 chip is "Footsteps
in an Empty Valley" by C. H. Ting (circa 1985). If I recall, the serial was
a bit-banged interface which required a letter from the terminal to
synchronise to the baud-rate you were using.

Then there is "more on novix4000" a periodical. I've volume 3 in front of me.
Contributions from different authors in different fonts and layouts.
Hand drawn diagrams of a "Memory mapped A/D converters"
Ting's beautiful Chinese calligraphy (8 characters) of
For knowledge , add a little everyday
For wisdom, erase little everyday
(Chuck Moore got it framed.)
One guy with only a capitals-only-printer. Apparently Chuck Moore
owned a matrix printer that could do lower case.
His letters contains a mysterious ASCII art road map. He's inviting
the FIG party at COMPUTER COWBOYS 410 Star Hill Road (20 miles
mountain road).
Bill Muench was the only one who could do a proportional font on his
matrix printer. He used a fresh ribbon. If only the contributors to
our Dutch "vierde dimension" were that clever.
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.

Is there a Simulator of the Novix in Forth anywhere?

[Anton Ertl]

What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web abo=
ut the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.

- anton

[Paul E Bennett]

Post by Anton Ertl

Post by d***@gmail.com
What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web
abo= ut the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.
- anton

I know that they didn't seem to produce more than an initial batch and I was
asked to sell mine back so that a project could be completed with it. I
though that the web was just beginning at the time Novix was coming out but
Anton is probably right that not much was promoted that way in those early
years.

Of course, the basic design of the Novix was used for the RTX2000 family
that Harris produced. There is CPU-IP for the RTX series available which
would be useful if you need that type of processor for anything (see MPE's
web-site).

[Anton Ertl]

Post by Paul E Bennett
I
though that the web was just beginning at the time Novix was coming out but
Anton is probably right that not much was promoted that way in those early
years.

Publications about the Novix are from 1985-1987, and AFAIK Novix was
defunct when the RTX 2000 came out (data sheet from 1988). The first
web server and web browser were developed in 1990, the first Mosaic
was available in 1993, Netscape in 1994, and IE in 1995.

- anton

[JUERGEN]

Post by Anton Ertl

What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web abo=
ut the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

The NOVIX description in Footsteps In An Empty Valley has just been released as the latest eBook. Written by TING and with a lot of updates.
My question now is: What is still in some boxes somewhere regarding this chip - not touched for years:
1. documentation
2. chips
3. boards
4. software
5. applications from then
6. who has knowledge and interest to get it running again.
Steve is in the process of trying to implement the chip as IP in his spare time. Similar to what had been done for the FIG-Forth Manual and the 1802 IP

If there is possible access to SW and HW on loan - I would give it a scan or take pictures to go with the IP.

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Anton Ertl

What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web abo=
ut the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

The NOVIX description in Footsteps In An Empty Valley has just been released as the latest eBook. Written by TING and with a lot of updates.
1. documentation
2. chips
3. boards
4. software
5. applications from then
6. who has knowledge and interest to get it running again.
Steve is in the process of trying to implement the chip as IP in his spare time. Similar to what had been done for the FIG-Forth Manual and the 1802 IP
If there is possible access to SW and HW on loan - I would give it a scan or take pictures to go with the IP.

I have seen copies of cmForth on the web, it's the Forth that Charles
Moore wrote for the Novix.

I also know that the Dutch Forth Group has several copies of the
hardware and documentation, I was interested and was told they would
look into donation one to me but I never heard back again.

I hope they do create a FPGA version as I'm interested in that processor.

[JUERGEN]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Anton Ertl

What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web abo=
ut the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

The NOVIX description in Footsteps In An Empty Valley has just been released as the latest eBook. Written by TING and with a lot of updates.
1. documentation
2. chips
3. boards
4. software
5. applications from then
6. who has knowledge and interest to get it running again.
Steve is in the process of trying to implement the chip as IP in his spare time. Similar to what had been done for the FIG-Forth Manual and the 1802 IP
If there is possible access to SW and HW on loan - I would give it a scan or take pictures to go with the IP.

I have seen copies of cmForth on the web, it's the Forth that Charles
Moore wrote for the Novix.
I also know that the Dutch Forth Group has several copies of the
hardware and documentation, I was interested and was told they would
look into donation one to me but I never heard back again.
I hope they do create a FPGA version as I'm interested in that processor.
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Steve did the 1802 IP to get FIG-Forth running on FPGA, and he is looking into doing a Novix now - and I am interested to see the performance and power consumption of a Novix compared to the MPS430 IP running the same functionality.

[JUERGEN]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Anton Ertl

What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web abo=
ut the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

The NOVIX description in Footsteps In An Empty Valley has just been released as the latest eBook. Written by TING and with a lot of updates.
1. documentation
2. chips
3. boards
4. software
5. applications from then
6. who has knowledge and interest to get it running again.
Steve is in the process of trying to implement the chip as IP in his spare time. Similar to what had been done for the FIG-Forth Manual and the 1802 IP
If there is possible access to SW and HW on loan - I would give it a scan or take pictures to go with the IP.

I have seen copies of cmForth on the web, it's the Forth that Charles
Moore wrote for the Novix.
I also know that the Dutch Forth Group has several copies of the
hardware and documentation, I was interested and was told they would
look into donation one to me but I never heard back again.
I hope they do create a FPGA version as I'm interested in that processor.
--
Cecil - k5nwa

... and there are loads of cmFORTH screens in the eBook. As Ting was involved at the time - it should be possible to have a complete cmFORTH version.

[rickman]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Anton Ertl

What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web abo=
ut the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

The NOVIX description in Footsteps In An Empty Valley has just been
released as the latest eBook. Written by TING and with a lot of updates.
My question now is: What is still in some boxes somewhere regarding
1. documentation
2. chips
3. boards
4. software
5. applications from then
6. who has knowledge and interest to get it running again.
Steve is in the process of trying to implement the chip as IP in his
spare time. Similar to what had been done for the FIG-Forth Manual
and the 1802 IP
If there is possible access to SW and HW on loan - I would give it a
scan or take pictures to go with the IP.

I have seen copies of cmForth on the web, it's the Forth that Charles
Moore wrote for the Novix.
I also know that the Dutch Forth Group has several copies of the
hardware and documentation, I was interested and was told they would
look into donation one to me but I never heard back again.
I hope they do create a FPGA version as I'm interested in that processor.

I would be interested in helping with that. I don't have any docs on
the instruction set. I would need something that defines it clearly and
completely.

[JUERGEN]

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Anton Ertl

What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web abo=
ut the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.

It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

The NOVIX description in Footsteps In An Empty Valley has just been
released as the latest eBook. Written by TING and with a lot of updates.
My question now is: What is still in some boxes somewhere regarding
1. documentation
2. chips
3. boards
4. software
5. applications from then
6. who has knowledge and interest to get it running again.
Steve is in the process of trying to implement the chip as IP in his
spare time. Similar to what had been done for the FIG-Forth Manual
and the 1802 IP
If there is possible access to SW and HW on loan - I would give it a
scan or take pictures to go with the IP.

I have seen copies of cmForth on the web, it's the Forth that Charles
Moore wrote for the Novix.
I also know that the Dutch Forth Group has several copies of the
hardware and documentation, I was interested and was told they would
look into donation one to me but I never heard back again.
I hope they do create a FPGA version as I'm interested in that processor.

I would be interested in helping with that. I don't have any docs on
the instruction set. I would need something that defines it clearly and
completely.
--
Rick C

There are a lot of details in the eBook, which is the documentation from then. I am trying to collect more and make it available.

[Paul Rubin]

Post by Cecil Bayona
I hope they do create a FPGA version as I'm interested in that processor.

There are some manuals around, though I've no idea how complete the info
in them is. It's probably easiest to start with a software
implementation.

There is also a commented version of cmforth online. I don't have the
url handy but I think I saved a copy when I came across it.

[m***@iae.nl]

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by d***@gmail.com
What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing*

on the web about the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which
is weird.
It's from before the web. Almost nothing from that time is
represented on the web, unless it is of interest to history fans and
such. Apparently the Novix has escaped the attention of the
retro-computing people; I guess the overlap of these two small niches
is too small.

The NOVIX and the Wiesel are from the BBS era: 300 baud
acoustic couplers, home computers, floppy disks, 10 MB
harddisks, CD-writers that couldn't back up a hard drive
etc..

I dug up and saved all that I could find (a backup CDROM
from 1998) here: http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/novix.html .

IIRC, at the time I used the Harris kit to read/write audio
directly (no disk controller) on to a floppy disk. That one
was a contender in an MPE contest at the time. (I didn't win,
they probably thought that I was pulling their leg :-)

Maybe Stephen kept some entries from that epoch.

-marcel

[Stephen Pelc]

Post by m***@iae.nl
IIRC, at the time I used the Harris kit to read/write audio
directly (no disk controller) on to a floppy disk. That one
was a contender in an MPE contest at the time. (I didn't win,
they probably thought that I was pulling their leg :-)

I think I was just one of the judges for a competition
sponsored by a magazine ... but it was a long time ago
and some of my memory cells have emptied themselves.

If I find some Novix or RTX hardware and/or docs, is anyone
interested in preserving them?

Stephen

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Stephen Pelc

Post by m***@iae.nl
IIRC, at the time I used the Harris kit to read/write audio
directly (no disk controller) on to a floppy disk. That one
was a contender in an MPE contest at the time. (I didn't win,
they probably thought that I was pulling their leg :-)

I think I was just one of the judges for a competition
sponsored by a magazine ... but it was a long time ago
and some of my memory cells have emptied themselves.
If I find some Novix or RTX hardware and/or docs, is anyone
interested in preserving them?
Stephen

I would be interested and have a hosting account and domain for Forth.

[JUERGEN]

Post by Stephen Pelc

Post by m***@iae.nl
IIRC, at the time I used the Harris kit to read/write audio
directly (no disk controller) on to a floppy disk. That one
was a contender in an MPE contest at the time. (I didn't win,
they probably thought that I was pulling their leg :-)

I think I was just one of the judges for a competition
sponsored by a magazine ... but it was a long time ago
and some of my memory cells have emptied themselves.
If I find some Novix or RTX hardware and/or docs, is anyone
interested in preserving them?
Stephen
--
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: [phone], fax: [phone]
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

Stephen, for the time being I would like to have access if possible, especially as Noxix, RTX and probably other Forth cores are on the agenda. I had said no in the past as I was not sure we would get that far.

[JUERGEN]

Post by Stephen Pelc

Post by m***@iae.nl
IIRC, at the time I used the Harris kit to read/write audio
directly (no disk controller) on to a floppy disk. That one
was a contender in an MPE contest at the time. (I didn't win,
they probably thought that I was pulling their leg :-)

I think I was just one of the judges for a competition
sponsored by a magazine ... but it was a long time ago
and some of my memory cells have emptied themselves.
If I find some Novix or RTX hardware and/or docs, is anyone
interested in preserving them?
Stephen
--
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: [phone], fax: [phone]
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

And I forgot one important one on the IP list: GA1toN, but with more Flash and RAM per core - or at least Standard and the option to do real work per core ...

[rickman]

Post by Stephen Pelc

Post by m***@iae.nl
IIRC, at the time I used the Harris kit to read/write audio
directly (no disk controller) on to a floppy disk. That one
was a contender in an MPE contest at the time. (I didn't win,
they probably thought that I was pulling their leg :-)

I think I was just one of the judges for a competition
sponsored by a magazine ... but it was a long time ago
and some of my memory cells have emptied themselves.
If I find some Novix or RTX hardware and/or docs, is anyone
interested in preserving them?

I would be interested in that. I can add them to my 8080 collection...
I also can host a web site for the docs. I already have the domain
name armforth.com which is not totally related, but should be close
enough. I've been looking for some content to use to start a web page.

[d***@davidwarman.net]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Syd Rumpo]

Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
I went mad, and clicked the 'buy it now' button on ePay, and have a Novix NB4300 STD board being sent to me :-) Ok - Not *that* mad, but just a little crazy.
In the late 80's, I worked at the Australian National University here in Canberra, Australia, where I helped work on a Novix Beta Board - And it was amazingly fast. Blindingly fast. So much so, that I copied the doco and the distribution media.
So - I have here the printouts of the Novix NC4000P Supplement, which documents the Beta Board, and some 40 track floppies - The job for the next couple of nights, is to grab the data off the floppies.
I am writing to the list, to see if anybody has doco for the STD bus board, the NB4300, or if I will be reverse engineering it. From the photos, I see that it has serial on board, as well as the ram for the stack, the return stack, and the data ram, as well as a couple of narrow ePROMS. I can't figure out how serial was implemented from the photo, but there is enough programmable logic that they *might* have implemented a SIO in a gate array because they were out of board real estate, but that's not likely.
What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web about the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.
Anyway - hopefully somebody else here can help.
Doug

I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.

It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

Cheers

[Syd Rumpo]

On 04/11/2014 14:30, Syd Rumpo wrote:

<snip>

Post by Syd Rumpo
I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.
It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

I did anyway, they're quite interesting.

http://dropcanvas.com/gna1p

Cheers

[JUERGEN]

Post by Syd Rumpo
<snip>

Post by Syd Rumpo
I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.
It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

I did anyway, they're quite interesting.
http://dropcanvas.com/gna1p
Cheers
--
Syd

Syd,

I just tried to find the documentation you scanned,
it seems the link does not work.
Can you email it to ***@aol.com ?
If it is big then please 10MB max per email. Thanks

I just received 2 different CDP1802s in 2 FPGAs, have to connect them to see the serial response and then get a Forth onto it, so had to have a look at the Footsteps I have on loan from Paul Bennett.

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Syd Rumpo
<snip>

Post by Syd Rumpo
I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.
It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

I did anyway, they're quite interesting.
http://dropcanvas.com/gna1p
Cheers
--
Syd

Syd,
I just tried to find the documentation you scanned,
it seems the link does not work.
If it is big then please 10MB max per email. Thanks
I just received 2 different CDP1802s in 2 FPGAs, have to connect them to see the serial response and then get a Forth onto it, so had to have a look at the Footsteps I have on loan from Paul Bennett.

This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.

I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.

Thanks

[JUERGEN]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Syd Rumpo
<snip>

Post by Syd Rumpo
I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.
It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

I did anyway, they're quite interesting.
http://dropcanvas.com/gna1p
Cheers
--
Syd

Syd,
I just tried to find the documentation you scanned,
it seems the link does not work.
If it is big then please 10MB max per email. Thanks
I just received 2 different CDP1802s in 2 FPGAs, have to connect them to see the serial response and then get a Forth onto it, so had to have a look at the Footsteps I have on loan from Paul Bennett.

This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks
--
Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks
--
Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on the
Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be quite
different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most reliable thing.
I'll look into it as time permits.

[rickman]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks
--
Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is available
https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on the
Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be quite
different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most reliable thing.
I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work with the
Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do you have to
work with so far?

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks
--
Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is available
https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on the
Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be quite
different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most reliable thing.
I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work with the
Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do you have to
work with so far?

It just an interesting CPU with history to it, I believe it's the 1st
Forth CPU, it led to the RTX-2000 which is still out in space exploring.
I have Philip Koopman's "Stack Computers the New Wave", it has a chapter
dedicated to the Novix NC1416.
<
https://www.amazon.com/Stack-Computers-Wave-Philip-Koopman-ebook/dp/B00D96U606

Post by rickman
there are free versions available but this one is a cleaned up

version from the source and not a scan of the book. It has a lot of
information on this and several other Stack CPUs, but more information
is better in the long run, and this information is disappearing at an
alarming rate so anything of possible interest, I'm hoarding the
information before it disappears. I have a Forth folder with software
and documentation that is 46GB of old stuff that is hard to find, one
day I might post it on www.Forthlang.org.

[JUERGEN]

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks
--
Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is available
https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on the
Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be quite
different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most reliable thing.
I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work with the
Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do you have to
work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from scratch.
One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2 different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next year

[rickman]

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 5:21:07 PM UTC+1, Cecil -

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.

[JUERGEN]

Post by rickman

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.
--
Rick C

VHDL is fine, the synthesis tool does not care. Footsteps in an empty valley is probably the best starting point - but I assume there are enough people here who might have additional information. We just have to wait a bit. With the 1802 in my hand - Novix will be next and then RTX which seemed to be the next step when Intersil took over.
I would suggest a two step approach: get started an see what comes out - and then start to improve if the interest is there. As there is no target speed it will be as fast as it gets in the first steps. And there were the articles here - English and Swedish.

And as there is a complete set in the Netherlands - would it be possible to get the documentation on loan to check and copy what helps?

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.
--
Rick C

VHDL is fine, the synthesis tool does not care. Footsteps in an empty valley is probably the best starting point - but I assume there are enough people here who might have additional information. We just have to wait a bit. With the 1802 in my hand - Novix will be next and then RTX which seemed to be the next step when Intersil took over.
I would suggest a two step approach: get started an see what comes out - and then start to improve if the interest is there. As there is no target speed it will be as fast as it gets in the first steps. And there were the articles here - English and Swedish.
And as there is a complete set in the Netherlands - would it be possible to get the documentation on loan to check and copy what helps?

Phillip Koopmans "Stack Computers: The New Wave" book also has
information on the Novix CPU.
< https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/ >
<
https://www.amazon.com/Stack-Computers-Wave-Philip-Koopman-ebook/dp/B00D96U606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473093185&sr=8-1&keywords=Stack+Computers%3A+The+New+Wave
The amazon version is from the source so it looks much better for $.99

[JUERGEN]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.
--
Rick C

VHDL is fine, the synthesis tool does not care. Footsteps in an empty valley is probably the best starting point - but I assume there are enough people here who might have additional information. We just have to wait a bit. With the 1802 in my hand - Novix will be next and then RTX which seemed to be the next step when Intersil took over.
I would suggest a two step approach: get started an see what comes out - and then start to improve if the interest is there. As there is no target speed it will be as fast as it gets in the first steps. And there were the articles here - English and Swedish.
And as there is a complete set in the Netherlands - would it be possible to get the documentation on loan to check and copy what helps?

Phillip Koopmans "Stack Computers: The New Wave" book also has
information on the Novix CPU.
< https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/ >
<
https://www.amazon.com/Stack-Computers-Wave-Philip-Koopman-ebook/dp/B00D96U606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473093185&sr=8-1&keywords=Stack+Computers%3A+The+New+Wave
The amazon version is from the source so it looks much better for $.99
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Thanks for this. Copied the relevant chapters out of the HTML and the block diagrams look very much the same. VHDL might go the other way here: to do the RTX with additional FLASH / RAM as a running system and then comment out what does not exist in the Novix. Or an NOV_RTX as the simpler version Novix with the additional Stacks, but let's see how this project progresses.

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
Phillip Koopmans "Stack Computers: The New Wave" book also has
information on the Novix CPU.
< https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/ >
<
https://www.amazon.com/Stack-Computers-Wave-Philip-Koopman-ebook/dp/B00D96U606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473093185&sr=8-1&keywords=Stack+Computers%3A+The+New+Wave
The amazon version is from the source so it looks much better for $.99
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Thanks for this. Copied the relevant chapters out of the HTML and the block diagrams look very much the same. VHDL might go the other way here: to do the RTX with additional FLASH / RAM as a running system and then comment out what does not exist in the Novix. Or an NOV_RTX as the simpler version Novix with the additional Stacks, but let's see how this project progresses.

That is an excellent book if one is interested in designing a Stack CPU.

I'm currently negotiating with C.H. Ting he has one copy of the book of
"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" which is all about the Novix NC4016 CPU,
I want to take the only copy and scan it creating an electronic version,
if he agrees to it then the book will be available again.

[Albert van der Horst]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
Phillip Koopmans "Stack Computers: The New Wave" book also has
information on the Novix CPU.
< https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/ >
<
https://www.amazon.com/Stack-Computers-Wave-Philip-Koopman-ebook/dp/B00D96U606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473093185&sr=8-1&keywords=Stack+Computers%3A+The+New+Wave
The amazon version is from the source so it looks much better for $.99
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Thanks for this. Copied the relevant chapters out of the HTML and the block diagrams look very much the same. VHDL might go the other way here: to do the RTX with additional FLASH / RAM as a running system and then comment out what does not exist in the Novix. Or an NOV_RTX as the simpler version Novix with the additional Stacks, but let's see how this project progresses.

That is an excellent book if one is interested in designing a Stack CPU.
I'm currently negotiating with C.H. Ting he has one copy of the book of
"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" which is all about the Novix NC4016 CPU,
I want to take the only copy and scan it creating an electronic version,
if he agrees to it then the book will be available again.

I've a copy too. The advantage of having contact with C.H.Ting
is to have its electronic original.

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
Phillip Koopmans "Stack Computers: The New Wave" book also has
information on the Novix CPU.
< https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/ >
<
https://www.amazon.com/Stack-Computers-Wave-Philip-Koopman-ebook/dp/B00D96U606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473093185&sr=8-1&keywords=Stack+Computers%3A+The+New+Wave
The amazon version is from the source so it looks much better for $.99
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Thanks for this. Copied the relevant chapters out of the HTML and the block diagrams look very much the same. VHDL might go the other way here: to do the RTX with additional FLASH / RAM as a running system and then comment out what does not exist in the Novix. Or an NOV_RTX as the simpler version Novix with the additional Stacks, but let's see how this project progresses.

That is an excellent book if one is interested in designing a Stack CPU.
I'm currently negotiating with C.H. Ting he has one copy of the book of
"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" which is all about the Novix NC4016 CPU,
I want to take the only copy and scan it creating an electronic version,
if he agrees to it then the book will be available again.

I've a copy too. The advantage of having contact with C.H.Ting
is to have its electronic original.

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

He only has one revision 3 paper copy left and won't sell it or loan it,
and his computer version is an old revision and has no illustrations.
Apparently the latest electronic version is lost. He is in the middle of
several personal projects so this is not a very high priority project
for him to put the illustrations and bring the text up to date, so it
may take quite a long time before it's available if at all.

I offered to scan the illustrations, clean them up and put them in the
text, update the text to revision 3 and return his original paper
version and updated electronic version but he would rather do it himself
when he has the time and come up with revision 4, which maybe would
never happen as he as his health issues and other interest of higher
priority.

Unfortunately this is some of the many sources of Forth information that
is disappearing very quickly, I wish I had gotten a copy a long time
back but I was busy with many other things, now that I have the time and
interest I find many Forth resources have been lost, and sitting in
peoples basement waiting to be thrown out in the trash. So in topics of
possible interest I been searching and hoarding information so it will
not be lost, and publish them in a domain I own; < www.forthlang.org

Post by Albert van der Horst
, for many items it already too late.

[Albert van der Horst]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
Phillip Koopmans "Stack Computers: The New Wave" book also has
information on the Novix CPU.
< https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/ >
<
https://www.amazon.com/Stack-Computers-Wave-Philip-Koopman-ebook/dp/B00D96U606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473093185&sr=8-1&keywords=Stack+Computers%3A+The+New+Wave
The amazon version is from the source so it looks much better for $.99
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Thanks for this. Copied the relevant chapters out of the HTML and the block diagrams look very much the same. VHDL might go the other way here: to do the RTX with additional FLASH / RAM as a running system and then comment out what does not exist in the Novix. Or an NOV_RTX as the simpler version Novix with the additional Stacks, but let's see how this project progresses.

That is an excellent book if one is interested in designing a Stack CPU.
I'm currently negotiating with C.H. Ting he has one copy of the book of
"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" which is all about the Novix NC4016 CPU,
I want to take the only copy and scan it creating an electronic version,
if he agrees to it then the book will be available again.

I've a copy too. The advantage of having contact with C.H.Ting
is to have its electronic original.

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

He only has one revision 3 paper copy left and won't sell it or loan it,
and his computer version is an old revision and has no illustrations.
Apparently the latest electronic version is lost. He is in the middle of
several personal projects so this is not a very high priority project
for him to put the illustrations and bring the text up to date, so it
may take quite a long time before it's available if at all.
I offered to scan the illustrations, clean them up and put them in the
text, update the text to revision 3 and return his original paper
version and updated electronic version but he would rather do it himself
when he has the time and come up with revision 4, which maybe would
never happen as he as his health issues and other interest of higher
priority.
Unfortunately this is some of the many sources of Forth information that
is disappearing very quickly, I wish I had gotten a copy a long time
back but I was busy with many other things, now that I have the time and
interest I find many Forth resources have been lost, and sitting in
peoples basement waiting to be thrown out in the trash. So in topics of
possible interest I been searching and hoarding information so it will
not be lost, and publish them in a domain I own; < www.forthlang.org

Post by Albert van der Horst
, for many items it already too late.

The Dutch Forth gg inherits all Forth related intellectual property of
Peynenburg Software Development. This is a couple of banana boxes.
It includes FysForth, one of the first extensive Forth's,
for the Apple II used in the Physics Lab (fysisch laboratorium)
of the university Utrecht. (Later there was a version for IBM PC).
It is unlikely that the university would contend ip, in view of
a decennia long commercial exploitation of those Forths by PSD and the
fact that the authors are members of the Dutch Forth gg.

As far as Novix board is concerned the Forth gg inventory says
"
Novix SBC and parafernalia

EB1 4200 (SBC standalone) + manual 8 pc.
SB4100 PC ISA card + manual 3 pc. + 1 defective

General handbook "express" 12 pc.

"10 books with background information"
"

[ I should have written down the titles of the books. ]

I'm sure we have :
- footsteps in an empty valley
- More on NC4000 volume 3 ( a mishmash of overprints)
- Novix EB1 ein Hochgeschwindigkeits-Rechner mit dem
Novix NC4000

The latter book is apparently written by PSD for the German
market. Even if it is non-proportional print and single sided,
it is high quality and contains electronic schemes, timing
diagrams, and a Forth glossary.
(I can read German, it is definitively not Norwegian.)

We could certainly part with one EB1 4200 + manual + express book.

I think it will be too late to lay hands on the other NC4000
newsletter volumes. IMO they are mainly for historic interest.

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Groetjes Albert

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
Phillip Koopmans "Stack Computers: The New Wave" book also has
information on the Novix CPU.
< https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/ >
<
https://www.amazon.com/Stack-Computers-Wave-Philip-Koopman-ebook/dp/B00D96U606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473093185&sr=8-1&keywords=Stack+Computers%3A+The+New+Wave
The amazon version is from the source so it looks much better for $.99
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Thanks for this. Copied the relevant chapters out of the HTML and the block diagrams look very much the same. VHDL might go the other way here: to do the RTX with additional FLASH / RAM as a running system and then comment out what does not exist in the Novix. Or an NOV_RTX as the simpler version Novix with the additional Stacks, but let's see how this project progresses.

That is an excellent book if one is interested in designing a Stack CPU.
I'm currently negotiating with C.H. Ting he has one copy of the book of
"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" which is all about the Novix NC4016 CPU,
I want to take the only copy and scan it creating an electronic version,
if he agrees to it then the book will be available again.

I've a copy too. The advantage of having contact with C.H.Ting
is to have its electronic original.

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

He only has one revision 3 paper copy left and won't sell it or loan it,
and his computer version is an old revision and has no illustrations.
Apparently the latest electronic version is lost. He is in the middle of
several personal projects so this is not a very high priority project
for him to put the illustrations and bring the text up to date, so it
may take quite a long time before it's available if at all.
I offered to scan the illustrations, clean them up and put them in the
text, update the text to revision 3 and return his original paper
version and updated electronic version but he would rather do it himself
when he has the time and come up with revision 4, which maybe would
never happen as he as his health issues and other interest of higher
priority.
Unfortunately this is some of the many sources of Forth information that
is disappearing very quickly, I wish I had gotten a copy a long time
back but I was busy with many other things, now that I have the time and
interest I find many Forth resources have been lost, and sitting in
peoples basement waiting to be thrown out in the trash. So in topics of
possible interest I been searching and hoarding information so it will
not be lost, and publish them in a domain I own; < www.forthlang.org

Post by Albert van der Horst
, for many items it already too late.

The Dutch Forth gg inherits all Forth related intellectual property of
Peynenburg Software Development. This is a couple of banana boxes.
It includes FysForth, one of the first extensive Forth's,
for the Apple II used in the Physics Lab (fysisch laboratorium)
of the university Utrecht. (Later there was a version for IBM PC).
It is unlikely that the university would contend ip, in view of
a decennia long commercial exploitation of those Forths by PSD and the
fact that the authors are members of the Dutch Forth gg.
As far as Novix board is concerned the Forth gg inventory says
"
Novix SBC and parafernalia
EB1 4200 (SBC standalone) + manual 8 pc.
SB4100 PC ISA card + manual 3 pc. + 1 defective
General handbook "express" 12 pc.
"10 books with background information"
"
[ I should have written down the titles of the books. ]
- footsteps in an empty valley
- More on NC4000 volume 3 ( a mishmash of overprints)
- Novix EB1 ein Hochgeschwindigkeits-Rechner mit dem
Novix NC4000
The latter book is apparently written by PSD for the German
market. Even if it is non-proportional print and single sided,
it is high quality and contains electronic schemes, timing
diagrams, and a Forth glossary.
(I can read German, it is definitively not Norwegian.)
We could certainly part with one EB1 4200 + manual + express book.
I think it will be too late to lay hands on the other NC4000
newsletter volumes. IMO they are mainly for historic interest.

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Groetjes Albert

Exactly what do you mean by part with? Is the EB1 4200 an actual CPU board?

In any case any worthwhile literature I get a hold of will be scanned,
and cleaned up, and if it's a decent manual it will be re-type to get a
electronic clean copy.

[Paul Rubin]

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley"... He only has one revision 3 paper
copy left and won't sell it or loan it... I offered to scan

There's a library near me with a copy. I don't know which revision. I
can't borrow it from them but I can go there and look at it, or
potentially scan it there if Ting is ok with that. Or are you near
enough to Ting to scan his copy without having to borrow it?

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Paul Rubin

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley"... He only has one revision 3 paper
copy left and won't sell it or loan it... I offered to scan

There's a library near me with a copy. I don't know which revision. I
can't borrow it from them but I can go there and look at it, or
potentially scan it there if Ting is ok with that. Or are you near
enough to Ting to scan his copy without having to borrow it

I live in North West Arkansas, which is pretty far from California.

I was going to check and see if the libraries in my area can borrow a
copy, most likely tomorrow. I figure to scan it, then type it into a
word processor.

[Mark Wills]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Paul Rubin

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley"... He only has one revision 3 paper
copy left and won't sell it or loan it... I offered to scan

There's a library near me with a copy. I don't know which revision. I
can't borrow it from them but I can go there and look at it, or
potentially scan it there if Ting is ok with that. Or are you near
enough to Ting to scan his copy without having to borrow it

I live in North West Arkansas, which is pretty far from California.
I was going to check and see if the libraries in my area can borrow a
copy, most likely tomorrow. I figure to scan it, then type it into a
word processor.
--
Cecil - k5nwa

I may be able to help. I have Dragon Naturally Speaking installed
on my machine. I can literally speak the text into the computer and
it will type it for me. This can save a lot of time. It is generally
very useful for the textual parts of any manuscript, but useless for
source code. I could reproduce the textual portions of the manuscript
for you if you would like.

[Albert van der Horst]

<SNIP>

Post by Mark Wills

Post by Cecil Bayona
I was going to check and see if the libraries in my area can borrow a
copy, most likely tomorrow. I figure to scan it, then type it into a
word processor.
--
Cecil - k5nwa

I may be able to help. I have Dragon Naturally Speaking installed
on my machine. I can literally speak the text into the computer and
it will type it for me. This can save a lot of time. It is generally
very useful for the textual parts of any manuscript, but useless for
source code. I could reproduce the textual portions of the manuscript
for you if you would like.

Really? I've seen Footsteps in an empty valley and the usual
OCR programs will have no problems with it.

Groetjes Albert

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Paul Rubin

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley"... He only has one revision 3 paper
copy left and won't sell it or loan it... I offered to scan

There's a library near me with a copy. I don't know which revision. I
can't borrow it from them but I can go there and look at it, or
potentially scan it there if Ting is ok with that. Or are you near
enough to Ting to scan his copy without having to borrow it?

Dr Ting found a second copy, I just bought it so I shall have a copy
in a week or so.

If it's what I'm looking for I will transcribe it and send him a copy
for him to update.

[Paul Rubin]

Post by Cecil Bayona

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley"...

If it's what I'm looking for I will transcribe it and send him a copy
for him to update.

I've been wanting to read it since it sounds like an interesting book.
I hope the transcription works out and I look forward to seeing the
result. Thanks for doing this.

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Paul Rubin

Post by Cecil Bayona

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley"...

If it's what I'm looking for I will transcribe it and send him a copy
for him to update.

I've been wanting to read it since it sounds like an interesting book.
I hope the transcription works out and I look forward to seeing the
result. Thanks for doing this.

Just in case there is a misunderstanding, and I don't want to offend
anyone , the work is copyrighted and I don't want to get on the wrong
side of Dr Ting, he has helped me with several issues so I owe him some
loyalty.

I will not be distributing any version of this book to anyone other than
the author who intends to continue selling the book, I will send a copy
to Dr Ting so I can save him some time, then he can do what he wants
with it, hopefully he continues updating and selling it.

[Albert van der Horst]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Paul Rubin

Post by Cecil Bayona

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley"...

If it's what I'm looking for I will transcribe it and send him a copy
for him to update.

I've been wanting to read it since it sounds like an interesting book.
I hope the transcription works out and I look forward to seeing the
result. Thanks for doing this.

Just in case there is a misunderstanding, and I don't want to offend
anyone , the work is copyrighted and I don't want to get on the wrong
side of Dr Ting, he has helped me with several issues so I owe him some
loyalty.
I will not be distributing any version of this book to anyone other than
the author who intends to continue selling the book, I will send a copy
to Dr Ting so I can save him some time, then he can do what he wants
with it, hopefully he continues updating and selling it.

If this is in cooperation with Amazon a warning is in order.
Ting should not transfer copyright to Amazon, but only grant
non-exclusive distribution right. Otherwise people who scan the
book to publish it in 75 years when it becomes public domain,
will get an army of lawyers on their neck. More likely any
activities in this respect will be terminated out of fear.

(Good-faith conservation efforts should of course be considered
fair use, not copyright violation, laws must be changed.)

Apparently Ting had given up hope to make big bucks out of this book
long ago. This suggests that a small push can convince him to put it out
with some liberal licence. That would make things a lot easier.

P.S. despite its catchy title, I don't think this book is much
more valuable than other descriptions of NOVIX like
"Ein Hochgewscindigkeits-Rechner .." whose copyright we (the Dutch)
are sitting on.

The best part of FSIAEV is the 4 syllable chinese verb

to attain knowledge
add every day
to attain wisdown
simplify away something everyday

and the calligraphic representation there of.

And of course it reminds me of ciforth versus ANS ;-)

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Groetjes Albert

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Paul Rubin

Post by Cecil Bayona

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley"...

If it's what I'm looking for I will transcribe it and send him a copy
for him to update.

I've been wanting to read it since it sounds like an interesting book.
I hope the transcription works out and I look forward to seeing the
result. Thanks for doing this.

Just in case there is a misunderstanding, and I don't want to offend
anyone , the work is copyrighted and I don't want to get on the wrong
side of Dr Ting, he has helped me with several issues so I owe him some
loyalty.
I will not be distributing any version of this book to anyone other than
the author who intends to continue selling the book, I will send a copy
to Dr Ting so I can save him some time, then he can do what he wants
with it, hopefully he continues updating and selling it.

If this is in cooperation with Amazon a warning is in order.
Ting should not transfer copyright to Amazon, but only grant
non-exclusive distribution right. Otherwise people who scan the
book to publish it in 75 years when it becomes public domain,
will get an army of lawyers on their neck. More likely any
activities in this respect will be terminated out of fear.

70 years is way too long, this is mostly done by Disney Corporation,
they pushed for the extension of the copyright laws which are now at a
ridiculous length, 70 years after the death of the author or 70 years
for a corporation.

Hopefully he will not give his copyright to a Corporation like Amazon,
who has no interest in preserving the knowledge, but looks only to how
much money it could make. and if in the future if they are no longer
interested they will allow the book to die.

Post by Albert van der Horst
(Good-faith conservation efforts should of course be considered
fair use, not copyright violation, laws must be changed.)
Apparently Ting had given up hope to make big bucks out of this book
long ago. This suggests that a small push can convince him to put it out
with some liberal licence. That would make things a lot easier.
P.S. despite its catchy title, I don't think this book is much
more valuable than other descriptions of NOVIX like
"Ein Hochgewscindigkeits-Rechner .." whose copyright we (the Dutch)
are sitting on.
The best part of FSIAEV is the 4 syllable chinese verb
to attain knowledge
add every day
to attain wisdown
simplify away something everyday
and the calligraphic representation there of.
And of course it reminds me of ciforth versus ANS ;-)

What happened there, I'm interested in a curious bit on Forth History.

On a related issue, a long time ago, I wanted to get a copy of ByteForth
but it didn't work out, the club would not accept anything but a wire
transfer, wire transfers are very expensive in the US, I offered PayPal
and would make up for the fees but they were adamant, so no ByteForth,
after that I lost interest in Forth for a while but now I'm retired and
I'm back.

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Groetjes Albert

I have no idea what his plans are, I'm doing this for my personal use.
I'm not privy to his plans, I'm just interested in making sure the
knowledge is not lost.

[Albert van der Horst]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Albert van der Horst
<SNIP>

Post by Cecil Bayona
On a related issue, a long time ago, I wanted to get a copy of ByteForth
but it didn't work out, the club would not accept anything but a wire
transfer, wire transfers are very expensive in the US, I offered PayPal
and would make up for the fees but they were adamant, so no ByteForth,
after that I lost interest in Forth for a while but now I'm retired and
I'm back.

That is dramatic.
We're just a bunch of hackers, we can't do much around financial
manipulations. Probably that went through national HCC.
You should've contacted more personally,
probably Willem would have sent is as a promotion.
The first order from outside the Netherlands!
But seriously, although Byteforth is a nice product, its
Dutch documentation would not have been ideal for you.
With noforth all documentation is available in English too.

Mind you I didn't stop using Forth due to that issue, that was a minor
irritation but I was busy with work and other personal issues and so
little was done with Forth. I wanted just a copy of the software and the
electronic manual but like I mentioned I was not able to get a copy. I
would still be interested in getting a copy of the software and manual
so if you have a name and email address I would still be interested.

I used Pygmy Forth on my desktop and really liked it but It was a DOS
version of the software and eventually became non-functional with
Windows. I would use it to write personal tools and even quite a few
programs for work. The most complicated was a program to connect a bunch
of CNC machines to a PC so the operators could download CNC programs to
their machines. It used cooperative multi-tasking to connect up to 16
CNC machines to one PC. and could do up to 16 transfers at the same
time, but in practical use maybe 1 or 2 transfers were more common. It
supported multiple download protocols as the Lathes were all different,
even though some lathes were the same their controllers were different
from one another. I was a fun project, some of the machines were really
dumb so I had to be creative to make them work. I still have the
hardware, and recently I found a binder with the documentation on the
project with a copy of the software in a 3.5" floppy, I have 15 PCs
throughout the house and not one of them have floppy drives..

Even now the AVR version seems to be a very useful piece of software,
there isn't a whole lot of decent software for the AVR devices.

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Groetjes Albert

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Albert van der Horst
<SNIP>

Post by Cecil Bayona
On a related issue, a long time ago, I wanted to get a copy of ByteForth
but it didn't work out, the club would not accept anything but a wire
transfer, wire transfers are very expensive in the US, I offered PayPal
and would make up for the fees but they were adamant, so no ByteForth,
after that I lost interest in Forth for a while but now I'm retired and
I'm back.

That is dramatic.
We're just a bunch of hackers, we can't do much around financial
manipulations. Probably that went through national HCC.
You should've contacted more personally,
probably Willem would have sent is as a promotion.
The first order from outside the Netherlands!
But seriously, although Byteforth is a nice product, its
Dutch documentation would not have been ideal for you.
With noforth all documentation is available in English too.

noforth looks to be very nice, I have a MSP430 MSP-EXP430G2 board coming
today using the 2553 chip, I will give it a try. It seems well
documented. I didn't see but what kind of compiler is it? Indirect,
Direct, Subroutine threaded?

noforth is for the MSP430 family, ByteForth is for the AVR family so
they are not quite interchangeable, I still have a ton of Arduino boards
and a decent Forth would be nice for simple projects, although I'm
trying to simplify things by sticking mostly to ARM CPUs, and MSP430 for
fun, the ARMs are cheap, and powerful, nonetheless I have at least 25
Arduinos I bought from China for little expense that I would like to put
to some use.

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Groetjes Albert

[Matthias Trute]

Post by Cecil Bayona
noforth is for the MSP430 family, ByteForth is for the AVR family so
they are not quite interchangeable,

You could give amforth a try. It works on both controller types
sharing a lot of (higher level) code. Just check out http://amforth.sf.net
for more information.

Matthias

[rickman]

Post by rickman

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.

I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.

https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html

Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.

The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by rickman
I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.
The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" by C. H. Ting" is a book about the
NSC4016 with information on the hardware and software of that CPU, your
nearby library or University may have a copy.

[rickman]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by rickman
I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.
The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" by C. H. Ting" is a book about the
NSC4016 with information on the hardware and software of that CPU, your
nearby library or University may have a copy.

So far this is the only copy I've found.

http://www.figuk.plus.com/library_index.htm

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by rickman
I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.
The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" by C. H. Ting" is a book about the
NSC4016 with information on the hardware and software of that CPU, your
nearby library or University may have a copy.

So far this is the only copy I've found.
http://www.figuk.plus.com/library_index.htm

In my area it's not available, I will visit the library today to return
some books, they can look at other sources.

Did you try SVFIG? I'm assuming you are in the US.

[rickman]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by rickman
I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.
The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

"Footsteps in an Empty Valley" by C. H. Ting" is a book about the
NSC4016 with information on the hardware and software of that CPU, your
nearby library or University may have a copy.

So far this is the only copy I've found.
http://www.figuk.plus.com/library_index.htm

In my area it's not available, I will visit the library today to return
some books, they can look at other sources.
Did you try SVFIG? I'm assuming you are in the US.

Google doesn't find any mention at their web site.

[Albert van der Horst]

Post by rickman

Post by rickman

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.

I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.
The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

Of course. The Novix board came with complete documentation.
The 12 boards we have all have a set of documentation.
Now this documentation may not be readily available on the net.

Post by rickman
--
Rick C

Groetjes Albert

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by rickman

Post by rickman

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.

I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.
The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

Of course. The Novix board came with complete documentation.
The 12 boards we have all have a set of documentation.
Now this documentation may not be readily available on the net.

Post by rickman
--
Rick C

Groetjes Albert

So those 12 boards and documentation for sale, loan, or what?

[Albert van der Horst]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by rickman

Post by rickman

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.

I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.
The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

Of course. The Novix board came with complete documentation.
The 12 boards we have all have a set of documentation.
Now this documentation may not be readily available on the net.

Post by rickman
--
Rick C

Groetjes Albert

So those 12 boards and documentation for sale, loan, or what?

Did you miss this (in one of my other followups) ?

"We can certainly part with one of the sets."

So yes. We can dig one up and send it to a person who is going
to scan the manuals. (provided the board of directors of the
Dutch Forth Chapter approves and the barn where we keep stuff
has not burned down)

Groetjes Albert

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Groetjes Albert

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by Albert van der Horst

Post by rickman

Post by rickman

Post by JUERGEN

Post by rickman

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Cecil Bayona
This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the
more information the better when trying to implement a FPGA
version of the CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks -- Cecil - k5nwa

The J1 might be a good starting point and the Verilog is
available https://github.com/samawati/j1eforth

Are you sure they are similar? I have a little documentation on
the Novix CPU and of the J1 and their architecture seem to be
quite different, but then I'm going by memory, not the most
reliable thing. I'll look into it as time permits.

No, aside from using stacks, they are not so similar. I must have
missed the original post where you talked about wanting to work
with the Novix devices. What exactly is your interest and what do
you have to work with so far?
--
Rick C

I assume J1 is the closest as a starting point. The J1 Verilog could
be used as starting point I assume. If not, one has to start from
scratch. One other source of info is C.H. Ting [1987]. “Footsteps in
an Empty Valley”, 1987, Offete, Enterprises, San Mateo, California.

I'm not sure how the code for a simple stack machine would help you much
for coding up a totally different stack machine. The code is not hard
to write. What is hard is understanding what the CPU is supposed to do.
If you have a full spec on the instructions of the NOVIX as well as a
full register specification, it should be an easy thing to figure out
the register transfer operations required to implement the instructions.
The coding of this would then be very straight forward. Figuring out
optimizations to make it run faster or fastest would be harder.

Post by JUERGEN
My interest is to see it running again in FPGA. I just received 2
different implementations of the CDP1802 in Lattice DevBoards which
somebody kindly flashed for me, and the is the one James Bowman did
as well. The same I would like to see for Novix and other Forth
processors. No commercial interest. Forth information is disappearing
so quickly, so I might do another eBook - Forth Processors - next
year

If someone did the leg work and provided a complete spec of the Novix
adequate to do the design without a lot of guesswork, I would be willing
to code the thing. It would be in VHDL though. Or I might be willing
to do it in Verilog as getting proficient in Verilog is one of my long
term goals. I believe it was Bernd Paysan who insisted that once you
try Verilog you will never go back to VHDL. I'm happy with VHDL but if
Verilog is Nirvana, I guess I should get on board.

I found a web page that describes the various instruction encodings
although not the detailed descriptions of the instructions.
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_4.html
Some of the instructions are obvious such as the subroutine call, it
pushes the current PC on the stack and loads immediate the instruction
data to the PC. But then there are always questions... The value
pushed on the stack can be the current instruction pointer or a pointer
to the next instruction. This is not specified. Accessing the return
address directly will give wrong results if this is not specified properly.
The other instructions are similarly vague. Before trying to code
anything, I would want to clear up details like this. Is there a better
source of info?

Of course. The Novix board came with complete documentation.
The 12 boards we have all have a set of documentation.
Now this documentation may not be readily available on the net.

Post by rickman
--
Rick C

Groetjes Albert

So those 12 boards and documentation for sale, loan, or what?

Did you miss this (in one of my other followups) ?
"We can certainly part with one of the sets."
So yes. We can dig one up and send it to a person who is going
to scan the manuals. (provided the board of directors of the
Dutch Forth Chapter approves and the barn where we keep stuff
has not burned down)
Groetjes Albert

Post by Cecil Bayona
--
Cecil - k5nwa

Groetjes Albert

I would definitely be interested, depending on the size I can also
transcribe the text so it can be used by a word processor and not just a
photo of the pages. A real boar would be sweet to compare against the
FPGA version.

[Syd Rumpo]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Syd Rumpo
<snip>

Post by Syd Rumpo
I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.
It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

I did anyway, they're quite interesting.
http://dropcanvas.com/gna1p
Cheers
--
Syd

Syd,
I just tried to find the documentation you scanned,
it seems the link does not work.
If it is big then please 10MB max per email. Thanks
I just received 2 different CDP1802s in 2 FPGAs, have to connect them
to see the serial response and then get a Forth onto it, so had to
have a look at the Footsteps I have on loan from Paul Bennett.

This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks

I'll dig them out and scan them again, but it'll be a couple of days as
I'm away at the moment.

Cheers

[Syd Rumpo]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Syd Rumpo
<snip>

Post by Syd Rumpo
I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.
It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

I did anyway, they're quite interesting.
http://dropcanvas.com/gna1p
Cheers
--
Syd

Syd,
I just tried to find the documentation you scanned,
it seems the link does not work.
If it is big then please 10MB max per email. Thanks
I just received 2 different CDP1802s in 2 FPGAs, have to connect them
to see the serial response and then get a Forth onto it, so had to
have a look at the Footsteps I have on loan from Paul Bennett.

This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks

I just found them, thought they were at home.

http://dropcanvas.com/zs395

NB Dropcanvas only holds things for a few days.

Cheers

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by Syd Rumpo

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Syd Rumpo
<snip>

Post by Syd Rumpo
I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.
It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

I did anyway, they're quite interesting.
http://dropcanvas.com/gna1p
Cheers
--
Syd

Syd,
I just tried to find the documentation you scanned,
it seems the link does not work.
If it is big then please 10MB max per email. Thanks
I just received 2 different CDP1802s in 2 FPGAs, have to connect them
to see the serial response and then get a Forth onto it, so had to
have a look at the Footsteps I have on loan from Paul Bennett.

This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks

I just found them, thought they were at home.
http://dropcanvas.com/zs395
NB Dropcanvas only holds things for a few days.
Cheers

Thanks for the articles, every bit helps when trying to re-created the
device. I downloaded and checked the files, all is fine at this end.

[j***@ieee.org]

Post by Syd Rumpo

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by JUERGEN

Post by Syd Rumpo
<snip>

Post by Syd Rumpo
I have copies of the three 'Electronics and Wireless World' Novix
articles from early 1987, one of which describes the NX4 board which was
available from Computer Solutions.
It's not an STD board, but if they're of any use, I could scan them.

I did anyway, they're quite interesting.
http://dropcanvas.com/gna1p
Cheers
--
Syd

Syd,
I just tried to find the documentation you scanned,
it seems the link does not work.
If it is big then please 10MB max per email. Thanks
I just received 2 different CDP1802s in 2 FPGAs, have to connect them
to see the serial response and then get a Forth onto it, so had to
have a look at the Footsteps I have on loan from Paul Bennett.

This is a very old article and I hope there is a response.
I would also be interested in a copy of the articles, the more
information the better when trying to implement a FPGA version of the
CPU, right now I have little information.
Thanks

I just found them, thought they were at home.
http://dropcanvas.com/zs395
NB Dropcanvas only holds things for a few days.
Cheers
--
Syd

]>Novix articles from early 1987
Have a PDF file from 1998 (in German) which looks like a data sheet.
KONSTRUKTIONSSPECIFIKATION FÖR D3 PROJEKTARBETE:
KONSTRUKTION AV FORTH-CPU
from "Chalmers Tekniska Högskola"

Also some 1999 C++ code that looks like a simulator.
Where do I put them or e-mail them?

[Syd Rumpo]

On 05/09/2016 00:19, ***@ieee.org wrote:

<snipped>

Post by j***@ieee.org
]>Novix articles from early 1987
Have a PDF file from 1998 (in German) which looks like a data sheet.
KONSTRUKTION AV FORTH-CPU
from "Chalmers Tekniska Högskola"
Also some 1999 C++ code that looks like a simulator.
Where do I put them or e-mail them?

I find www.dropcanvas.com useful as a temporary distribution point. You
drop the files there and post the supplied URL, the files are available
for a few days. No registration, no fuss.

Cheers

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by j***@ieee.org

Post by Syd Rumpo
I just found them, thought they were at home.
http://dropcanvas.com/zs395
NB Dropcanvas only holds things for a few days.
Cheers
--
Syd

]>Novix articles from early 1987
Have a PDF file from 1998 (in German) which looks like a data sheet.
KONSTRUKTION AV FORTH-CPU
from "Chalmers Tekniska Högskola"
Also some 1999 C++ code that looks like a simulator.
Where do I put them or e-mail them?

You may want to zip them up so it's just one file, and store them at
dropcanvas.com

[j***@ieee.org]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by j***@ieee.org

Post by Syd Rumpo
I just found them, thought they were at home.
http://dropcanvas.com/zs395
NB Dropcanvas only holds things for a few days.
Cheers
--
Syd

]>Novix articles from early 1987
Have a PDF file from 1998 (in German) which looks like a data sheet.
KONSTRUKTION AV FORTH-CPU
from "Chalmers Tekniska Högskola"
Also some 1999 C++ code that looks like a simulator.
Where do I put them or e-mail them?

You may want to zip them up so it's just one file, and store them at
dropcanvas.com
--
Cecil - k5nwa

http://dropcanvas.com/#145z1VcT6DKXVC
enjoy

[Cecil Bayona]

Post by j***@ieee.org

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by j***@ieee.org

Post by Syd Rumpo
I just found them, thought they were at home.
http://dropcanvas.com/zs395
NB Dropcanvas only holds things for a few days.
Cheers
--
Syd

]>Novix articles from early 1987
Have a PDF file from 1998 (in German) which looks like a data sheet.
KONSTRUKTION AV FORTH-CPU
from "Chalmers Tekniska Högskola"
Also some 1999 C++ code that looks like a simulator.
Where do I put them or e-mail them?

You may want to zip them up so it's just one file, and store them at
dropcanvas.com
--
Cecil - k5nwa

http://dropcanvas.com/#145z1VcT6DKXVC
enjoy

It's in Swedish not German, it didn't look like German so I started
trying some of the Nordic languages.

Any possibility of getting the C programs?

[j***@ieee.org]

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by j***@ieee.org

Post by Cecil Bayona

Post by j***@ieee.org

Post by Syd Rumpo
I just found them, thought they were at home.
http://dropcanvas.com/zs395
NB Dropcanvas only holds things for a few days.
Cheers
--
Syd

]>Novix articles from early 1987
Have a PDF file from 1998 (in German) which looks like a data sheet.
KONSTRUKTION AV FORTH-CPU
from "Chalmers Tekniska Högskola"
Also some 1999 C++ code that looks like a simulator.
Where do I put them or e-mail them?

You may want to zip them up so it's just one file, and store them at
dropcanvas.com
--
Cecil - k5nwa

http://dropcanvas.com/#145z1VcT6DKXVC
enjoy

It's in Swedish not German, it didn't look like German so I started
trying some of the Nordic languages.
Any possibility of getting the C programs?
--
Cecil - k5nwa

]> Any possibility of getting the C programs?
You can cut and paste from the PDF.
I'd try and contact either Chalmers university or Stefan Axelsson
http://www.chalmers.se/en/Pages/default.aspx
https://sites.google.com/site/drstefanaxelsson/

The PDF files were located and downloaded in April 2001

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Post by j***@ieee.org
Have a PDF file from 1998 (in German) which looks like a data sheet.
KONSTRUKTION AV FORTH-CPU
from "Chalmers Tekniska Högskola"

That's Swedish. Chalmers is a university in Sweden.

[Albert van der Horst]

Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
I went mad, and clicked the 'buy it now' button on ePay, and have a
Novix NB4300 STD board being sent to me :-) Ok - Not *that* mad, but
just a little crazy.
In the late 80's, I worked at the Australian National University here in
Canberra, Australia, where I helped work on a Novix Beta Board - And it
was amazingly fast. Blindingly fast. So much so, that I copied the
doco and the distribution media.
So - I have here the printouts of the Novix NC4000P Supplement, which
documents the Beta Board, and some 40 track floppies - The job for the
next couple of nights, is to grab the data off the floppies.
I am writing to the list, to see if anybody has doco for the STD bus
board, the NB4300, or if I will be reverse engineering it. From the
photos, I see that it has serial on board, as well as the ram for the
stack, the return stack, and the data ram, as well as a couple of narrow
ePROMS. I can't figure out how serial was implemented from the photo,
but there is enough programmable logic that they *might* have
implemented a SIO in a gate array because they were out of board real
estate, but that's not likely.

The Dutch Forth chapter has several boards on loan, with complete
documentation. I myself have one, with the documentation and a
pc with ISA bus to match. We also have an NX6000 which is so rare
apparently that it may be worth money, 200 years from now.

Post by d***@gmail.com
What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web
about the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.
Anyway - hopefully somebody else here can help.

I'm planning into the not too distant future to get real serious
about scanning a lot of things. My Brother 8860DN doesn't cut it,
it pauses for no reason before sending the next chunk of
raw data over 100 Mhz line.
But for 2000 euro's Fujitsu has a marvelous two side scanner.

Post by d***@gmail.com
Doug

Groetjes Albert

[JUERGEN]

Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
I went mad, and clicked the 'buy it now' button on ePay, and have a Novix NB4300 STD board being sent to me :-) Ok - Not *that* mad, but just a little crazy.
In the late 80's, I worked at the Australian National University here in Canberra, Australia, where I helped work on a Novix Beta Board - And it was amazingly fast. Blindingly fast. So much so, that I copied the doco and the distribution media.
So - I have here the printouts of the Novix NC4000P Supplement, which documents the Beta Board, and some 40 track floppies - The job for the next couple of nights, is to grab the data off the floppies.
I am writing to the list, to see if anybody has doco for the STD bus board, the NB4300, or if I will be reverse engineering it. From the photos, I see that it has serial on board, as well as the ram for the stack, the return stack, and the data ram, as well as a couple of narrow ePROMS. I can't figure out how serial was implemented from the photo, but there is enough programmable logic that they *might* have implemented a SIO in a gate array because they were out of board real estate, but that's not likely.
What stuns me is that it looks like there there is *nothing* on the web about the board - almost a complete vaccuum - which is weird.
Anyway - hopefully somebody else here can help.
Doug

I would like to know if there is either a simulated Novix out there ( in Forth probably ) or an implementation in VHDL. FPGAs are so cheap nowadays and the dev boards, so doing one should not be too difficult I assume.
Having the footsteps, the software but no chip is unfortunate. A simulator showing what is going on inside could solve it, where speed is no issue.

[Jan Coombs >]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2014 06:08:35 -0800 (PST)

Post by JUERGEN
I would like to know if there is either a simulated Novix out there ( in Forth probably ) or an implementation in VHDL. FPGAs are so cheap nowadays and the dev boards, so doing one should not be too difficult I assume.
Having the footsteps, the software but no chip is unfortunate. A simulator showing what is going on inside could solve it, where speed is no issue.

I have executable models (simulators) for the J1 and B16. These also export VHDL/Verilog for FPGA synthesis tools. The J1 is more similar to the Novix. Anyone want the J1 source and help to modify it to NC4016?

Bernd's B16 is a much more conventional stack engine, and would be my first choice for play or project.

Jan Coombs

[Jecel]

One very detailed article I read about the Novix was in
"Electronic Design" March 21 1985. It has been quite a
while, but if I remember correctly it make a big deal
about "parallel execution", which meant that a single
instruction could do the work of several Forth words.

-- Jecel